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#352 - 12/05/07 10:03 AM
Re: Summon
[Re: Gabe]
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Cerberus
addict
Registered: 11/28/07
Posts: 608
Loc: Arlee, MT, USA
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Most of what I'm gathering is the ability of an AM to lock you up if you dont have a teleport of your own, not so much getting ganked, which any guild can do with proper preparation. A second solution might be to only allow summon to work outside, or even only on the world map. Then it can still be used offensively, but not as terribly so as beign locked up, or even summoned to someones castles uber room of death. "But, AM's are meant to be nasty due to their power. I do think perhaps being able to do this at level 12 might be a little low, but a high level AM should be nasty, as should most high levels."
That's one of the points. Even without summon, AMs are the nastiest guild. Summon simply takes them beyond being the worst guild, by far, to annoy, to being broken. So we nerf AM's then they complain about how easy NB's kill them (which they probably can do now) then the NB's get nerfed and they complain about how powerful fighters are, etc. Its a vicious cycle.
Back to summon, I still cant find history yet that it was meant to be benefitial only.
I do not like that it is level 12 with such hostile potential though. Still not sure of the right answer about it
As i understand it, summon requires the presence of a token in the inventory of the summoned player. Unwilling reception of items has been an issue that's surfaced in darke a number of times, and there seems to be a simple solution. In a manner similar to one player allowing another player to follow, there could be a command implemented where one player would have to allow another player to give them items. Are you going to accept something from someone if you don't want it in your possession? Probably not. Simple syntax:
trade allow <name>
Toggles the ability of <name>d player to give items to the one entering the command.
Of course, the stealth-requiring act of slipping something small into another person's inventory could be, and probably should be, a guild ability, if it is determined that the ability to do so will serve a useful purpose within the game.
Here we get into allowing a player's stats to have some effect. For instance, if the receive toggle ignores invisible givers, as I feel it rightly should, it should also include clauses that allow for one who has receive turned off to check their memory and reactions stats, and rid themselves of whatever their memory stat says they have not intentionally picked up in a time determined by their reactions stat!
So for the paranoid who feels they must not ever have an arch-mage's summon token on them, memory becomes important as with an extraordinarily high memory stat any received item will be recognized as soon as it arrives. For the same overly vigilant individual reactions would be important because they could potentially rid themselves of incomming disaster AS it arrives, before they ever have possession of it (so even a masterfully timed linked, speedwalked alias could not effectively summon the individual).
Perhaps I am erring in outlining a system rather than arguing points further, but I believe this or another system that deals with the fact that both pro and con points are exceptionally valid, could be the answer in keeping the potential for a "nasty" AM as well as keeping the potential for a player "immune" to summon.
Note: There are also more ways to boost memory and reactions than there are to see invisible.
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#356 - 12/05/07 10:43 AM
Re: Summon
[Re: Cerberus]
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Charon
enthusiast
Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 368
Loc: Toronto, ON
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The whole recieve command was completely negated unfortunately by being able to circumvent it with invis. The players we are discussing are high level mages, not level 12 mages and high level mages will have invis.
I think the whole argument isn't about being able to move another person, but to be able to move them wherever you want against their will.
The mechanics don't really matter. What DOES matter is if people should be able to, in any circumstances be able to move somebody against their will to another location.
Summon from my experience has usually been used in 2 ways:
1. Summon somebody onto a gate or other aggressive rune (back when the warp meant death to most).
2. Summon into a room with 15 aggro pets, and another type of aggressive rune so that said person would have to fight 15 pets, the mage and possibly eat a rune at the same time.
For pk reason a mage doesn't need summon as we've established. I personally don't think such a spell is required and portal is actually more useful than summon ever was.
It allows multiple people to come through, and, more importantly a person of any level can use a portal. If you want to be able to pull in that level 70 cleric they can summon an aerial servant, you can scry the servant and open a portal which the cleric can pass through. Very handy.
What would be the purpose exactly of having a spell that works like a single-person portal but requires a token exactly? The only reason *I* can think of is so that said person can be summoned against their will but it just makes it a bit more tricky.
The steps required to summon somebody in the old days.
1. cast scry at target
2. cast summon at target.
New method:
1. scry target
2. set up delays
3. trans invis to target
4. give token to target
5. delayed teleport goes off, followed by summon
Introducing a couple of extra steps doesn't really change the problem, it just makes it a little more difficult to do and is pretty pointless.
_________________________
If you say plz because it is shorter than please, then I will say no because it is shorter then yes.
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#365 - 12/05/07 11:20 AM
Re: Summon
[Re: Kim]
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Charon
enthusiast
Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 368
Loc: Toronto, ON
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Oh silly Kim.. always the devil's advocate.
Ok how about this:
Obasics made his best effort to look exactly like a bot, including but not limited to:
Ignoring people talking to him, even things like "I'm going to kill you if you start another rune without saying something".. and continued to work away.
While people were killing him, in the middle of a fight would move away after his LT finished, move back to the place where he was being attacked, pull out the next LT target and stand there doing nothing until dead.
So either he was botting, or is incredibly stupid and is making an active effort to look exactly like a bot.
Oh, and then 15 minutes later he would pray and start talking about how he was there just decided not to talk, didn't notice people attacking him (even if there were at least 2 pages of spam in a case when I was involved) and then decided to wait 15 minutes until he prayed for no particular reason.
It is POSSIBLE that he wasn't botting? Yes. It is also possible that he is an alien from a galaxy 50 million light years away mudding through some sort of worm-hole communication device.
Is it LIKELY that he wasn't botting? Not at all.
_________________________
If you say plz because it is shorter than please, then I will say no because it is shorter then yes.
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